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Errors in the summary of the featured article

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Errors with "In the news"

Yasin Malik

Why do the words 'Kashmiri separatist leader' in the blurb link to the wider Kashmir conflict instead of the more appropriate/specific Insurgency in Kashmir? Hindustani.Hulk (talk) 08:14, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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(June 3)

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Errors in the summary of the featured picture

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General discussion

File:Lynching2.jpg

Please read the file name before clicking on it. It's exactly what it sounds like.

Okay. Let's talk. Should this appear in Picture of the day? I think there is educational value in shocking people sometimes, but I'm inclined to say, "No", because there's a lot of photographic decisions that might be coincidental, but which also feel like they paint a narrative:

Not photographing the face is a photographic decision that reinforces the dehumanisation of the victim. The hat - seriously, why would he be wearing a hat after a lynching - hides any evidence of beatings prior to the lynching. His neck is hidden by the collar, hiding the actual lynching except for a short bit of chain. His arms are tied, but that isn't possible. It feels like this photograph was staged, the body arranged to lessen the violence, and hide the humanity of the victim.

Also, there's an extreme lack of documentation for this image. Other than knowing it comes from 1925, we don't know where it happened, we don't know who it happened to. And, I hesitate to say this, but the lack of documentation means we don't even know for certain this was a real hanging: stage rigs for fake-hanging someone aren't particularly complex. (Obviously, lynchings happen, but that would go some way to explaining some of the other features of the image).

I'm open to violence on the main page. But it needs to serve a purpose. Any objections to leaving this one off? Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 11:49, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I don't see this image on the main page. Am I missing something? --Jayron32 15:41, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nor do I. I just see another bird, as is typical for PotD. WaltCip-(talk) 16:31, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Doing the schedule work for next month's POTD, and this is one of the images (theoretically) in the queue. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 16:32, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If you're scheduling, and it bothers you, then who's going to stop you? Personally, doesn't make any difference to me. It would not be a problem to put it on the main page, but hey, if you're the one doing the hard work of setting up the queue and scheduling the pictures, it's your world. Nothing bad happens if you find other pictures to take up the queue. --Jayron32 18:19, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There's no rule that all FPs have to be POTD. We have no shortage of other images to feature. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE
) 15:42, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oddly enough, I'm inclined to say 'no' for the same reasons as my previous objection; it was taken in the first place to be voyeuristic - so many ended up as postcards even - and it's dehumanizing and objectifying. You touched on the latter yourself, above. This was a human being - someone's son, someone's baby. If I concentrate hard, I can understand the educational nature of this. But at the same time, it is clearly shocking on so many levels, and disrespectful to the victim. And I'm not entirely convinced that "educational" is the message everyone will receive here, y'know? - Alison talk 04:06, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Aye. I think there might be contexts for an image like this that justify them, e.g. "Walter Francis White took this photo to document the horror of.... "
But this feels like the kind of thing that would be of very low value to historians (no documentation, as mentioned), but could spread to every extreme racist website. Plus, it has an abuse filter to keep it appearing on non-whitelisted pages, which, if not precautionary, has terrifying implications. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 04:52, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hard no on having this on the main page. Gratuitous indeed, and unlikely to be received in its intended way, whatever that even is. Ovinus (talk) 04:12, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Think that's basically no disagreement, then. I'm sure we'll need to revisit related subjects at some point (And to clarify, by that I mean things like a few famous photographs of the aftermaths of battles, or something like File:Le Petit Journal 7 Oct 1906.jpg), but I think that we can safely declare anything like this is definitely out. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 05:12, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Planned POTD 2022-06-13 (File:Michele Merkin 1.jpg)

There was clear consensus against including this image as POTD at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day/Archive 6#Discussion regarding possible picture of the day: Michele Merkin. I'm confused as to why User:Adam Cuerden removed it from Wikipedia:Picture of the day/Unused without discussion and scheduled it to run on 2022-06-13. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE
) 15:17, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps Wikipedia:POTD/Unused should actually link discussions if it's meant to be held by them. As it was, it very much gives the impression it was one person's opinion. However, I don't think the discussion is particularly relevant given the blurbs provided with the image were quite... bad, which contextualised things differently. Now, 8 years on, with her having done a number of notable things, I think the context is very different, especially compared to the blurb about glamour photography that I'm a little shocked this image was trying to run as. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 16:16, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Adam Cuerden The discussion was explicitly mentioned and linked. Before you deleted it, the listing for this image ended in The decision not to feature this image on the main page was affirmed through a two-week discussion in May 2014. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE
) 16:37, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Very well, but that was 8 years ago, in a very different Wikipedia environment, and the summary of the argument is "Too cheesecake-y", which is hardly a compelling case against. And, frankly, I don't think anyone really cares if it's on the main page. We've had literal people dying on the main page before. We've had more nudity. If it shouldn't be a featured picture at all, nominate it for delisting. There's plenty of time for that. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 23:10, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The POTD guidelines specifically mention this as an example of an image which shouldn't be used. Hut 8.5 16:32, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm open to a vote on it, but I don't think it would really have any substantial controversy. I don't love the image, but I doubt it'd cause that much harm, and I don't like the precedent it sets to deny things more for fear of immature giggling than any concrete reason. And it's no doubt airbrushed and unrealistic, but it's not like we're going to make a habit of it. It's certainly an outlier for FPs, but it's not any worse than you'd see on the covers in any British shop's magazine rack.
I 'm not against leaving things off the main page, but I feel like there should be a standard of balancing possible harm with possible educational benefits. While a model's career might not be high academia, I'm really not seeing much harm, so... I think we call back to the default and run it.
And, you know, if we're really worried we can always move it to June 26th, at which point the featured article will absolutely assure no-one cares in the least about the FP. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 21:03, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Given the prior consensus against posting this I don't think it should be done without a discussion. Hut 8.5 11:33, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we've been having one. I can't force people to comment. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 16:46, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'll comment then and say that I see no good reason not to include it. It is a fine image of a beautiful person, and there is no suggestion of any exploitation of the subject. Maybe some cultures will find the semi-nudity mildly offensive, but by using the internet such users will be routinely exposing themselves to far worse, and our policy is not to accept such censorship on our pages. Jmchutchinson (talk) 19:21, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. No issue as far as I can tell. WaltCip-(talk) 15:46, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]